Huckabee and the Constitution WTF

[desertvixen]

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/01/15/579265.aspx

So, hoping this pretty naked statement will convince people that Huckabee is not Mr Nice and Friendly.

"[Some of my opponents] do not want to change the Constitution, but I believe it's a lot easier to change the constitution than it would be to change the word of the living God, and that's what we need to do is to amend the Constitution so it's in God's standards rather than try to change God's standards," Huckabee said, referring to the need for a constitutional human life amendment and an amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman.

This attitude scares me. I really can't say any more than that.

Actually, I can.

Newsflash: We can't all agree on what God's standards are. Not even all of the Christians can agree on God's standards, speaking as a Catholic.

Further Newsflash: Not everyone living in America is a Christian.

DV

Comments

[cynthia1960.livejournal.com]

Needless to say, this kind of theocratic talk makes me wonder why so many US Catholics align themselves with the fundamentalist Protestants; I figure we're up against the wall (even mostly lapsed ones like me) if they get their revolution.

[desert-vixen.livejournal.com]

Because the Catholic vote has been hijacked.

Because the Republicans have the "pro-life" candidates, and that has somehow become the issue.

Never mind the other stuff the Catholic Church is supposed to stand for - anti-death penalty, pro-social justice, pro-just war - abortion has become THE issue.

I'm pretty lapsed myself, in case you haven't guessed - but yeah, being a Catholic in the South can be distinctly uncomfortable at times.

The only thing more entertaining is watching Romney kiss up to the religious right, when you know he won't get their vote, because of that whole cult thing.

DV

[cynthia1960.livejournal.com]

That's just another reason in the list why my Jesuit-educated self is among the mostly lapsed instead of the observant. The one-issue anti-abortion folks conveniently forget all the stuff you need to do for the living after they're born.

Romney and Giuliani, the fundies will have a field day with them, the cultist and the idol-worshipper, won't they? I bet they think Christianity didn't exist before Martin Luther picked up his hammer (and I bet they wonder about him too). Sheesh. Learn some history.

[desert-vixen.livejournal.com]

Giuliani has more issues with his marital history than the Catholic thing.

Anyway, isn't it saints-and-Mary worship, rather than idols?

I know, the whole "real church" thing annoys me. That would be us. Or at least the Orthodox. Depending on POV, church history not my strong point.

DV

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

There are days when asking who came first can set my husband off on a long spiel about schisms and sects and who broke from who and on and on and on, but at least Catholics and Orthodox don't necessarily think the others are damned for that idolatry!

:-D

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

Not from most quarters. If we're faced with death and the Orthodox are around but no Catholics, we Catholics are urged to go to the Orthodox before any of the Protestant groups because YOUR sacraments are valid!

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

It would have been nice if I'd been able to take communion when I was attending Catholic Mass. I wish we'd get this all straight, you know?

[cynthia1960.livejournal.com]

Shoot, they've been having so much fun (fun as defined by providing theologians job security) arguing this stuff for a thousand years to actually stop now.

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

Here's the rub. It has to be approved by YOUR religious superiors. If it's okay by them, it's okay by us, yes. Orthodox ecclesiastics are less eager to allow the mutual taking of sacraments than we are. So as a Catholic I'm encouraged to ask the Orthodox for the sacraments if I need them, but to be prepared for a no. You on the other hand would probably be allowed by a Catholic minister (I say minister because Garpu and I are Eucharistic Ministers and can make that call) as long as it's okay with your own spiritual counselor.

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

I didn't find that out until *after* I came back. *g*

John however, was given dispensation to take Communion at Catholic Mass because the Orthodox chaplains are so few and far between and he would have only been able to take Communion once in 14 months.

When next I deploy, I'm going to talk to Fr. Jordan about that *before* I leave. :-D

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

Indeed, you must. Not having time to go to Mass is one of my big fears about deployment.

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

There were something like six Catholic chaplains on Liberty/Victory and Mass nine times a week. Also, most units are *really* good about getting worship times scheduled for their troops.

It's almost funny, but when I wasn't taking Communion, in any way, because I was pagan, I just *did not* get it, and the folx in my unit who weren't Catholic (there were 14 Orthodox on Liberty/Victory) didn't understand in much the same way. They thought my OIC at Taji was bonkers for putting me on a helicopter twice a month so I could get to Liturgy at Vic.

Do you have any prospective deployments coming up? (BTW, if I haven't mentioned, I'm terribly glad you did NOT go as an 88M.)

[kishiriadgr.livejournal.com]

Well, I don't know. JAG personnel tend to be deployed by themselves and assigned to a unit, a prospect that frightens me quite a lot--though not as much as being an 88M did! I certainly can't be deployed until after AIT, about which I'll know more tonight.

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

88M is a hell of a job, and it was a fun one, but I think my mom would have broken my kneecaps if I'd deployed as a truck driver.

We had a whole legal office in the brigade, so I though it would be like that for you.

Um. We should probably move this out of DV's LJ, though. :-D

[desert-vixen.livejournal.com]

I'm interested at least.

DV

[soldiergrrrl.livejournal.com]

Okay. :-) Just making sure we didn't hijack your LJ for off topic stuff. :-D

[garpu.livejournal.com]

extraordinary eucharistic ministers aren't allowed to refuse anyone in my diocese...that's the ordinary's job. I figure if someone's awkward or looking uncomfortable, it probably means they haven't been to Mass in awhile.

[cynthia1960.livejournal.com]

Giuliani gets that double whammy, dodgy marriages with a Catholic overlay.

The idol thing gets triggered by all our traditional statuary of saints and the BVM. There's a parish in east San Jose that is completely over the top with statues. The first time I was in a Baptist church, I was astounded by them having nothing to look at.

The "not real" accusation gets me mad, we've got at least one millennium's worth of prior experience on them.

[tygerr.livejournal.com]

Ah, but see, Catholics aren't Real Christians(tm). Nor are Mormons, or Episcopalians, or Lutherans, or or or etc. We can know this because they disagree with the Real Christians(tm) on important points of doctrine such as whether heretics should be hanged, stoned, or burnt.

And it's sadly true that not everyone in America is a Real Christian(tm). Which, you'll note, is one of the reasons why Real Christians(tm) think we SHOULD rewrite the Constitution.

(Now please excuse me while I wash out my brain. *bleah*)

[lilytree.livejournal.com]

*shudder* Statements like that terrify me.