desertvixen | Promised Post about Military Marriage

Current Mood: annoyed

Promised Post about Military Marriage

I mentioned this the other night, and I'm leaving it public so folks not on my friends list who might be interested can read it.

There have been articles in the press lately about how the divorce rate for the Army is going up (in the case of the officers, it is skyrocketing) and trying to link it to the Iraq situation. Big surprise, I know - separation from your spouse and family causes strain on your marriage? What's next, sex causes pregnancy?

Granted, the separations have their good points as well. They give you a chance to stand on your own, not just as part of the couple. They give you a chance to appreciate what the two of you have together. But for the most part, they can really suck. Communication can be problematical, at times. Email and phone calls and letters can go a long way, but it's still not the same as having your spouse there.

The largest problem with military marriages that I see is people getting married before they really know each other. Sometimes because one of the pair (or, these days, both of the pair) is deploying, and they feel they have to for whatever reason. I'm not here to judge whether it's a good reason or not. But it can be a problem. First you don't know your partner inside out, then you rush to get married, then you're separated. Things happen in this situation, and they aren't always good.

Then, you have the attitude towards marriage and infidelity. Everyone's heard the joke about how "what happens on TDY stays on TDY" or how TDY to Korea stands for "Temporarily Divorced for a Year". Commitment is hard, and a lot of people aren't living up to it anymore. We were chatting with our instructor, and he was saying how he could totally see how military WIVES (his emphasis) cheat. Because, you know, women need physical intimacy. He seemed kind of surprised that Seatmate and I called him on that - as if we were expressing some sort of Victorian ideal. I won't lie - I missed Brian like crazy while he was gone, and there were nights that I would have done anything to just touch him, just for a moment. We're fairly physical people (as those who have seen us together will attest) - we like to hug, and kiss, and hold hands, and even just sit together. I missed that while he was gone, and I miss it now. But I'm not going to jeopardize my relationship with my husband for a moment of physical pleasure. If I get desperate, I'll just go buy some more batteries.

The guys can be just as guilty, I warrant. There's plenty of guys who think nothing of cheating on their spouse while they're away.

And don't even get me started on soldiers who sleep with other soldiers' spouses. Because that is just wrong.

So, how can we fix this marriage problem? I seriously think the military needs to start some sort of mandatory marriage counseling, either pre-wedding or during your marriage. I think it would be an excellent investment, because people who stay in the Army tend to be people whose families are happy with how they're treated.

On a side note, if I have to read one more letter to the editor of the times that talks about poor little civilian spouses and ASSUMES that the "military spouse" must be a civilian female, I shall scream.
I am a soldier.
I am a spouse.
Don't ask me to decide which one is harder - sometimes it's impossible to tell.

How about the fact that dual-military marriages face their own issues and stresses? Or, what about the civilian male spouses? It has to be even harder for them, given that the stereotype is the soldier boy going off to war while wife/girlfriend stays behind, bravely waving goodbye.

Maybe I need to go write my own letter to the editor.

DV (who would really love to see a book about dual-military marriages)

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I agree with you wholeheartedly, even though my husband and I haven't sought out any marriage counseling (due to untimely schedules and deployment). We are both interested in attending a marriage workshop (that isn't religious based) to work on our marriage (even if we both agree we don't currently need it).

Joe and I could of became a statistic, because we were only together for a short while before we took the plunge. Fortunately we got lucky and weren't separated until we had been married for more then a year and a half. Infidelity hasn't been issue at all, not even an after thought on both of our part. I miss Joe terribly while he is in Japan.

And I can empathize about the anger of everyone instantly assuming that a female spouse is a civilian spouse. I get it routinely in the Spouse Communities on LJ. I have to explain that I seriously know what I am talking about when it comes to the military, because I am Active duty and was AD before I met my husband.

I agree with you wholeheartedly, even though my husband and I haven't sought out any marriage counseling (due to untimely schedules and deployment). We are both interested in attending a marriage workshop (that isn't religious based) to work on our marriage (even if we both agree we don't currently need it).

My last unit sponsored some of these, but we were never able to get together for it. I'd like to do one, personally, not because we need it, but because I'm for anything that makes our marriage stronger.

DV

Mmm, mayve I'm a stubborn little bitch (wait.. we know I am, ha ha ha!), but I wouldn't take someone telling me how to run that part of my life very wbeull untill tricked into it... but that's just me. Still, I think that forpeople to getm arried by a military chaplain they have to go through all that consueling stuff... At least, one of my tech school roomies hd to!

//brain-dead rant//

kd5mk forwarded your entry to me.

Being that I was NCOIC for Legal Assistance when I was deployed to Iraq last year, you can definitely say I am intimately aware with just how bad the divorce rate is becoming. We were open for appointments 6 days a week, and had up to 5 appointments a day. More days than not, 3 out of those 5 were divorce cases, and the vast majority of those were not follow-ups. Either soldiers were already in the midst of a divorce, or had just been served divorce papers, or were looking into getting a divorce. Some of them had good reasons for looking to get divorced (i.e., their spouse back home cheated and then proceeded to clean out their bank account.. thus why I was adamant about most people NOT getting General powers of attorney), but for most the reasons weren't immediately apparent. I didn't speak to those soldiers directly - when it came to divorce, child support, and other such legal actions it was up to the attorneys to counsel the soldiers. The unfortunate side to being a military paralegal is that you pretty much are only experienced with military law, and not really experienced with civilian law.

Being that I'm in a dual-military marriage as well, I also know how hard it can be to be separated from my husband. We were unique in that we got married while we were both deployed (we were both stationed at Camp Anaconda, so we were extremely lucky), so we got to spend the majority of our deployment together. But he did have to go home for medical reasons not even 4 months into the deployment. He came back, but then had to go home again for medical. So out of a 12 month deployment, we spent maybe 6 of those months together, including the R&R leave. Not as bad as a full year, I know, but it was hard being away for even those few months at a time.

To get to the point, I agree that the military should require counseling for soldiers planning on getting married. The only thing with that is that it won't really apply to USAR or ARNG soldiers. Most are already married by the time they come onto active duty for deployments. They are most at risk, because unlike AD military families, they aren't accustomed to the routine of being separated for months at a time due to deployments or PCS to Korea, or TDY and such. I'm a reservist, I know. I'm unusual, however, in that my husband's civilian job is as a contractor for the Army in Germany, so we live life much like an AD family would. We live on the economy, but we still rely on things from the PX and the commissary a lot. That being said, most reserve and national guard families are NOT so steeped in military life. They don't understand that this is normal for active duty. They also see other services (AF, Marines, Navy) having shorter rotations (6 months on average) and are like, "why does my spouse have to be gone for so long?"

Don't ask me if I know what a good fix for the problem is. There really isn't. War is ugly, and sometimes so are the responsibilities of those committed to fight those wars. The only true fix, I believe, would be no war, but clearly that isn't going to happen any time soon. :) *lol*

When I first read your post, I thought it was a good idea about the mandatory marriage counseling. But after reading the comments I agree that the idea of the military making counseling mandatory would be not well-received. I know everytime my husband came home with a mandatory Navy meeting I had to attend I would instantly bitch that I wasn't in the f'ing Navy so why was it mandatory for me?

In Groton, the MWR had marriage enrichment classes offered every few weeks. I thought about going to one at one point, but my husband refused to go. I never did go, because at the time we were fine. There had been a point about a year earlier when I was truly considering leaving my husband because life was just too hard and miserable with him. What saved us was that I had a wonderful support system in place. I loved Groton, was close enough to my family, and had a lot of friends and activities to get me through each day.

I don't know what to suggest to make it better. I know the military needs to do something, though. I always had the impression that the Navy really doesn't care about our family problems, and if we had issues we needed to take it up with the Ombudsman. But then they would talk about how important it is to the military member to have a strong marriage and family life.

I agree with you. I too, find it annoying that a lot of the emphasis is always placed on civilian female wives/girlfriends. I think it's a lot harder to be a dual-military marriage and/or relationship. Most of the married soldiers I know that are in dual-military marriages, are away from their spouse. One girl's husband got in from Korea a few months ago, but was being deployed again. Another girl will be joining her husband in Texas, once her medboard goes through (and has spent most of her time in service deployed).

On another note, I don't really believe it's the military's responsibility to fix someone's marriage. I don't want them meddling in my life and forcing me to go through counseling just to get married. I really don't think it's going to help matters. I think it should be offered, but I don't think it should be forced. If two people want to get married, it's not going to stop them. They just will go through the motions to get what they want. The only difference is, they'll have one more thing to complain about and it'll delay their process a little longer than it would have been without it.

But what are you going to do about soldiers who go to Vegas? Punish them under UCMJ because they didn't go through their mandatory counseling?

The thing about that is, the whole marriage deal is run by the state, not by the military. So there wouldn't be anyway to enforce it, at least not beforehand. Afterwards, maybe.

I still don't like the idea. Just like I don't like the idea of an NCO being able to order me to walk in another direction because they feel that "I'm at risk".

This is a difficult situation, because it deals with people's personal lives. One couple may wait until the time is right to get married, while another throws caution to the wind and gets married after a few months of knowing each other.

What fuels it for the military, I think, is the benefits.

I seriously think the military needs to start some sort of mandatory marriage counseling, either pre-wedding or during your marriage. I think it would be an excellent investment, because people who stay in the Army tend to be people whose families are happy with how they're treated.

Maybe mandatory counseling isn't the answer. I don't want to start dictating how everyone runs their lives (because I hate it when the current administration keeps doing it) but I'd like to think there's something that could help. Maybe even just a meeting with someone in your chain of command, like a pre-marriage briefing on rights/responsibilities associated with getting married.

DV (late, need sleep)

Bwah-ha-ha.

Seriously though? If the Armed Forces are serious about cross-service deployment and force utilization, why not find out how the Navy makes it work? In the 6 years we lived in the San Diego area, we calculated that my dad got a bit over 2 years home with the family (The Iran-Hostage crisis was hard on the Pacific nuclear fleet).

One thing I remember: When my mom married my dad she "joined up," too. My dad was clear about the cost up front (despite being crazy about her) and she went into the thing with open eyes. Didn't mean she didn't hate quite a lot of it, but Dad+Navy was better than No Dad/No Navy. That aspect of marriage counseling probably should be mandatory, however anyone feels about it. Besides, aren't these soldiers? [Scratches head, confused] Isn't being told what to to, for the Good of the Corps, right, left and center just S.O.P.?

One thing I remember: When my mom married my dad she "joined up," too. My dad was clear about the cost up front (despite being crazy about her) and she went into the thing with open eyes. Didn't mean she didn't hate quite a lot of it, but Dad+Navy was better than No Dad/No Navy.

Your mother sounds like a strong woman with her head on her shoulders straight.

One of the reasons I plan to stay in is because after having been a soldier, I don't think I'd be happy being a dependent - and either way, I still deal with the BS. So, might as well stay in, where I get paid to deal with it, and have some influence.

That aspect of marriage counseling probably should be mandatory, however anyone feels about it.

To be fair, I think a lot of prospective spouses think they can handle it. Some things you don't really understand until you've lived inside it, and I think the military is one of those. It's easy to think how you might deal with the SO being gone when they're sleeping next to you.
I've made my choice - but that doesn't mean that there aren't times that it's damned hard to live with it and not go crazy. There have been times where I wondered if I was doing the right thing. Basically, I don't want to live without him.

Besides, aren't these soldiers? [Scratches head, confused] Isn't being told what to to, for the Good of the Corps, right, left and center just S.O.P.?

Not so much anymore. Remember, it's an Army of One. :) j/k

DV

I don't believe mandatory marriage counseling would work. The military is not an easy life for anyone, but I look at some of the marriages in the military, and I honestly wonder how happy they would be if one/both weren't in the military. Civilian jobs can be just as stressful and bring just as much hardship to a marriage.

So, should we make marriage counseling mandatory for everyone - to inlude non-military?

The high divorce rate in this country isn't made up of just or mostly military.

The high divorce rate in this country isn't made up of just or mostly military.

True, but the military one is the one that concerns me. I know we can't legislate common sense or clear thinking, but I look at the marriages I know breaking up, or the good soldiers getting out because they want their spouse more than they want the military - and I want to do *something*. If recruiting gets bad enough, maybe someone will start looking at the stress military families are under - alhough, before you ask, I have no solutions for that problem.

DV

I just want you to know, even if we disagree about something, I completely respect you and your opinion.

I honestly think that the solution lies with the people and their particular relationship. There's really only so much an outside source can do.

And if we're talking about mandatory marriage counseling - that could leave a bitter taste in someone's mouth. Some people don't even like going to marriage counseling voluntarily. Forcing them to go will only make matters worse - especially if they don't see a problem (even if there is one). It's just going to fuel their fire, you know what I mean?

It is unfortunate, especially if the person leaving is a good soldier and/or NCO. It is painful to watch the good ones leave, especially with some of the people who wear NCO rank.

My views are [probably] different because I myself am not married. (Although my relationship isn't easy, either. And if something happens to him, I just have to hope someone in his family contacts me.) And my primary concern does lie with the single soldier (as a BOSS representative). I personally think the single soldiers have been put on the back burner and their needs are not being adequately met - at least not where I'm at. That in itself is a whole different topic.

I don't know. :\

I know, and I respect your opinion too. It's okay, disagreeing is fine.

And my primary concern does lie with the single soldier (as a BOSS representative). I personally think the single soldiers have been put on the back burner and their needs are not being adequately met - at least not where I'm at. That in itself is a whole different topic.

Yes. I've done BOSS in the past, and from what I can tell, the success of the program is totally dependent on the command climate. Personally, I always wanted to see less focus on trips and concerts, etc - and more focus on why so many of us live in barracks that, quite plainly, suck. With plumbing that sucks. With dayrooms that look like they were furnished with rejects from a college frat house. Obviously, we can't all live at the Ritz, but something better than what we have would be nice.

Especially these barracks here at Ft H. No one really cares, because they're "just TDY barracks". Hello, we're here for 4 months! I'm not talking about stuff like why we don't have carpet, I'm talking about why we don't have stuff like toilet paper.

DV

Well, yes. We probably should. But we can't. The U.S. Military can (should they believe it would prove less trouble than it's worth) on the grounds of fitness for duty. Thus, it's worthwhile for them to explore whether or not it would be effective, if employed.

So, you think it's ok for the government to interfere with people's marriages and lives? That's not what I serve for. I don't want the government telling me I need to go to marriage counseling, whether I need it or not. I'm an adult, my would-be husband (we're not engaged, but for sake of discussion) is an adult - we can make the decision to go to marriage counseling on our own.

Why should the government make people go to marriage counseling? So our divorce rates aren't so high? Since when should people be forced to do something so that we can lower statistics?

I understand the necessity for certain laws. It's unfortunate that we need them, but I understand and respect them being there. But I don't want the government in my uterus. I don't want the government in my bedroom. I don't want the government telling me what to do in my marriage. That's not anyone's business - other than whom we CHOOSE to make it. We'll go to counseling because we want to, not because we're forced to.

Ok, I'll explore the realm of mandatory marriage counseling in the military...

If a servicemember's marital problems are so bad that it's beginning to affect their performance at work, then THAT servicemember and their spouse should be sent to marriage counseling.

Some people have marital problems, but you would never know because they can separate work from private life.

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Promised Post about Military Marriage

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