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desertvixen) wrote2008-05-30 11:21 pm
Who Thought This Was A Good Idea?
I found the story through a link on FSTDT.com, but this is pretty serious, in my eyes.
Marine Removed From Duty Over Bible Coin Reports
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A U.S. Marine in Iraq has been removed from duty amid complaints that he was handing out coins with Bible verses at an American checkpoint, the military said Thursday.
A military spokesman said Iraqis in Falluja complained that the Marine was giving the coins, which were printed in Arabic, to people at an entry control point in Falluja.
U.S. military regulations prohibit religious proselytizing.
"This has our full attention," said Col. James L. Welsh, chief of staff of Multi-National Force, West. "We deeply value our relationship with the local citizens and share their concerns over this serious incident."
At least one of the coins is stamped with the words "Where will you spend eternity?" according to a report published Thursday by McClatchy Newspapers.
The other side of the coin reportedly contains a verse from John 3:16 that reads, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life."
Several Falluja residents said they were given the coins over a two-day period and complained that U.S. troops, whom they consider foreign occupiers, were acting as Christian missionaries.
"Regulations prohibit members of the coalition force from proselytizing any religion, faith or practices," said Col. Bill Buckner, a coalition spokesman. "Our troops are trained on those guidelines before they deploy."
A military statement said "appropriate action" will be taken if the reports are substantiated.
The reports stoked religious concerns in Iraq just weeks after Iraqi police discovered that a U.S. soldier had used the Quran, Islam's holy book, for target practice.
The U.S. commander in Baghdad took the unusual step of holding a public ceremony and reading a letter of apology from the soldier, a sniper section leader, to local Iraqi leaders.
Many in attendance were members and leaders of Sunni militias that the U.S. military has courted to help fight al Qaeda in Iraq and other insurgents. Sunnis often face criticism from other Iraqis for cooperating with American troops.
Falluja, also a mostly Sunni city, was the scene of bitter and bloody fighting early in the Iraq war between U.S. troops, al Qaeda in Iraq and Sunni insurgents loyal to Saddam Hussein.**** **** ****
Seriously, WTF, over? Not just any Bible verse thing, but ones printed in ARABIC, which spells out deliberation on someone's part. What's next, Chick tracts in Arabic? (Yes, they're available. They stock 3 and custom order others. They also have a special Muslim FAQ.)
Also, using the Quran for target practice is NOT COOL. It's disrespectful. It's needlessly inflammatory. And it's f*cking stupid. Let's just turn that one around and imagine someone had used a Bible for target practice?
Also, proselytizing when you are literally carrying a weapon maybe isn't so nice and friendly.
DV
Bleeph?
Forehead. Desk. Forehead. Desk. Forehead. Desk. Forehead...
Re: Bleeph?
My thoughts exactly.
DV
no subject
Or put a crucifix in a jar of urine. Man, there'd be riots if that happened, right?
Also, proselytizing when you are literally carrying a weapon maybe isn't so nice and friendly.
I'm surprised to hear you criticize the Muslims so harshly.
(hint: stop and consider the history of Islam).
no subject
no subject
Regardless of the history of Islam (which, yes, I'm well aware is pretty violent - as is a lot of Christian history), we are NOT there to convert them to Christianity. We aren't there to "witness". We aren't there to proselytize.
We invaded their country. Whether you think that's wrong or right, necessary or a huge mistake that's going to haunt us, we invaded them.
But more to the point - this behavior is expressly forbidden. Servicemembers get training on respecting the Iraqis and their culture, and this does not qualify. Why is it forbidden? Because it stirs up crap we do not need. It can cause trouble we don't need.
And now, this time, we're the people with the guns and the power. There's no need to inflame things when it isn't an issue of importance.
DV
no subject
Oh, I agree with you on that. I was merely pointing out that modern Christianity does, in fact, tolerate disrespect without rioting.
Unlike modern Islam.
no subject
no subject
What bothers me is mostly the stupidity. This isn't a gray area - this is something that's pretty well spelled out. Why add to tension when there's no need?
Glad to see the commands taking swift action in both cases.
DV
no subject
Your job is to man the checkpoint, not to promote jesus at gun point dude.
Plus, I always thought the best form of message spreading was the one where you lead a good life, do good things, and provide acts of pure charity. Not the one where you invade and try to turn up a very very very sensitive issue, idiot.
no subject
Right now, he's been removed from that duty.
I think, however, the most they can really give him is an Article 15 (see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_15), for disobeying an order (I'm sure that somewhere over there is a policy letter forbidding this behavior), and possibly under the catch-all article. If they're smart, they'll make it a field grade, which gets the harshest punishment. Depending on his rank, he could lose some. The big thing will be the $$$ he loses.
DV